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Date: Mon, 31 Jul 89 03:17:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #571

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 9 : Issue 571

Today's Topics:
              Re: Apollo Ascent Modules
       Re: Station alternatives, What do WE have to do with it
      Stuff left on Moon (was Re: S-Band Beacon on Moon)
             latest Quayle gaffe
           Re: Don't Mess with NASA (afterburners)
        Re: (afterburners) T-38 show rooms....
           Re: Don't Mess with NASA (afterburners)
              Re: S-Band Beacon on Moon
              Re: Space Quest Foundation
             NSS Hotline Update for Space
           Re: Don't Mess with NASA (afterburners)
           Re: Possible evidence for life on Mars.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 19 Jul 89 11:31:57 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!etive![e-mail]  (Bob Gray)
Subject: Re: Apollo Ascent Modules

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Mundt) writes:
>Later flights had the ascent modules purposely were impacted into the surface of
>the moon to test seismic recording devices with a known force.  When the first

On the later flights the third stage of the Saturn V was
used for the same purpose after the LM had been unpacked.

It made a much bigger bang :->
    Bob.

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 89 08:00:08 GMT
From: agate!shelby!portia!hanauma![e-mail]  (Joe Dellinger)
Subject: Re: Station alternatives, What do WE have to do with it

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (William Baxter) writes:
>
>My congressman is Ron Dellums.  He is a cosponsor of the Space
>Transportation Services Purchase Act (Formerly the Launch Services
>Purchase Act).  Who is your congressman?  When did you last visit his
>office?  Have you asked him to support the STSPA?
>
OK! I feel guilty now! Could somebody post again the exact name and numbers
of this bill, a short description, and the generic format of addresses for
the House and Senate?
\    /\    /\    /\/\/\/\/\/\/\.-.-.-.-.......___________
 \  /  \  /  \  /Dept of Geophysics, Stanford University \/\/\.-.-....___
  \/    \/    \/Joe Dellinger [e-mail]  apple!hanauma!joe\/\.-._

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jul 89 09:42:23 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!icdoc!syma![e-mail]  (Andy Clews)
Subject: Stuff left on Moon (was Re: S-Band Beacon on Moon)

From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail] (Ed Morin):
> I believe that a fancy mirror was also left for laser experiements not
> to mention all the other junk that's still up there like the cameras,
> flags, moon rover, etc.

Not forgetting a golf club and a few balls, a hammer and a feather, and
probably some other interesting stuff too. Gosh, just think, hundreds of
years hence, lunar archaeologists might find that stuff and wondered
what must have gone on up there. The feather may cause particular
consternation :-)
Or am I wrong? did the Apollo crews bring the hammer, feather, golf
clubs etc back to earth?

--
Andy Clews, Computing Service, Univ. of Sussex, Brighton BN1 9QN, ENGLAND
JANET: [e-mail]   BITNET: [e-mail]
Voice: [phone] ext.2129

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 89 17:07:30 GMT
From: bfmny0![e-mail]  (Tom Neff)
Subject: latest Quayle gaffe

By the way this is only barely sci.space, but I assume folks have heard
about Danno's latest.  In a speech commemorating Apollo 11 the other
day, he proudly recalled the "historic moonwalk of Neil Armstrong and
Buz Lukens."  Lukens is a name he should know - a veteran Congressman
from Quayle's neighbor state of Ohio, he was recently indicted
(convicted? fuzzy there) for child molesting and has left his seat.

According to press reports, Quayle appeared puzzled at the laughter his
remark drew from the audience, but made no corrections or interruptions
in his prepared text.  You gotta love this guy.
--
"My God, Thiokol, when do you     \\    Tom Neff
want me to launch -- next April?"  \\    uunet!bfmny0!tneff

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 89 18:40:51 GMT
From: mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Don't Mess with NASA (afterburners)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (david s. channin) writes:
> ... What are the laws, regulations, etc (if any) that prevent you from
> doing the following:
>     1. Walk into the Northrop offices in wherever.
>     2. Pull out a bank check for x million dollars.
>     3. Say,``I'd would like that nice T-38 that's in the showroom''.
>     4. Fly away with same after filling the tank...
>
>     Why wouldn't this scenario work?? (or would it?).

The answer to item 3 will be "sorry, that is a USAF aircraft that is not
for sale to civilians without government approval".  This is partly
because the USAF paid for development and "owns the rights" to some
degree, and partly because practically all of the military-aircraft
manufacturers are utterly dependent on US government business and
are desperately anxious not to annoy their big customer.  And the US
government feels that private citizens should not be allowed to own jet
fighters.
--
$10 million equals 18 PM       |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
(Pentagon-Minutes). -Tom Neff  | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 89 21:10:47 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: (afterburners) T-38 show rooms....

You mean to tell me with all the what-if hot air generated, not
one person tried to get on the phone and call up Northrup
and inquire about said no longer manufactured aircraft?
Indicative of the net laziness? 8)  You'd rather post a what-if?
than an "I tried...?"  What happened to that reader who really wrote
G. Yeager and posted the response, he deserves more credit.

Ach! Mary you are wasting your time.  Let's turn these guys satellites
off: weather, comm, remote sensing......

Another gross generalization from

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, [e-mail]
  resident cynic at the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers:
  "You trust the `reply' command with all those different mailers out there?"
  "If my mail does not reach you, please accept my apology."
  {ncar,decwrl,hplabs,uunet}!ames!eugene
                  Live free or die.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 89 01:28:38 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (Berry Kercheval)
Subject: Re: Don't Mess with NASA (afterburners)

In article <[e-mail]>, stadler@Apple (Andy Stadler) writes:
>I used to consider that a stereotype until about the 3rd time a Bonanza
>tried to run me down....  Why is it always Bonanzas making straight in's
>at uncontrolled airports?

I've noticed that too.  I have seen the following happen:

    Bonanza nearly clips the 152 I'm in AFTER we're cleared to land,
    and lands ahead of us.  He got a license suspension for that...

    Bonanza goes out Altamont pass (about 900 ft??) VFR when the
    ceiling was 1100.

    Bonanza comes to LVK and can't find the airport even though he
    claims to see the "gravel pits" less than 2 nm SW.  Controller
    has to give him a vector.

    Bonanza lands gear up at Harris Ranch on 4 July this year (well,
    I saw the aftermath)

Now I have nothing against Bonanzas as aircraft, and I am sure that most
Bonanza owners are fine, safe, concientious pilots (Hi, pHIL!), but something
seems to attract bozos.

Alene calls this the "Cadillac driiver" phenomemon, as she has noticed that
a disproportionate number of Cadillacs seem to be driven by jerks.

Oddly, though, I was talking to one of the LVK controllers once and he
said that the worst things he saw when at SFO were inevitably PanAm
planes or Mooneys.  He theorized that PanAm captains came in, drove
over to PAO and took off in their Mooney...

  --berry

(If you are with PanAm or fly a Mooney or Bonanza, I don't mean to
offend you.  THese are general observations and not all mine even.
Specific people are different; probably MOST Bonanzas, Mooneys and
Clippers are fine!  It's the few bad apples...)

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 89 09:46:54 GMT
From: shelby!portia!hanauma![e-mail]  (Joe Dellinger)
Subject: Re: S-Band Beacon on Moon

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:
>No, but it was costing some small amount of money to receive, store, and
>analyze the data.

Here's a question I've always wanted to ask: why even bother to shut the
things off? Just ignore them, and if they're still working a few years later
when you change your mind, so much the better. If they had shut off the
deep space network, would they have given a command to the Voyagers and
pioneers "make no further broadcasts, accept no further instructions from
Earth"?

\    /\    /\    /\/\/\/\/\/\/\.-.-.-.-.......___________
 \  /  \  /  \  /Dept of Geophysics, Stanford University \/\/\.-.-....___
  \/    \/    \/Joe Dellinger [e-mail]  apple!hanauma!joe\/\.-._

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 89 18:14:05 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (Eugene Miya)
Subject: Re: Space Quest Foundation

I have no qualms about this.  I only want to point out one thing.
We the people, mostly of the US, if you are supposedily so intelligent and
so great (so occasionally foolhardy young in this world) have to establish
and balance some long term goals.  Yes yes short-term survival...

But you may have read history books about the early exploration and
colonization of the "New World."  You should visit Canada and stop
by the Hudson's Bay Company (the pred. to Macy's etc.).  Who will
the HBC's of the future.  Will he have HBC-like companies?  Will they
be better and wiser?

Space is a harsh place, more so than your short experience on earth can
tell you.  Space is BIG, really big! 8)

What can you say but gross generalizations?

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, [e-mail]
  resident cynic at the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers:
  "You trust the `reply' command with all those different mailers out there?"
  "If my mail does not reach you, please accept my apology."
  {ncar,decwrl,hplabs,uunet}!ames!eugene
                  Live free or die.

------------------------------

From: ota
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 89 12:26:50 -0700
Subject: NSS Hotline Update for Space

/* Written 12:09 pm  Jul 20, 1989 by jordankatz in cdp:sci.space */
/* ---------- "NSS Hotline Update for Space" ---------- */
This is the National Space Society's Space Hotline, update -
Space Day, July 20, 1989.

At 10 am this morning President George Bush on the steps of the
National Air and Space Museum commemorated the 20th anniversary
of the Apollo 11 mission which landed the first men on the Moon.
He went on to stress the need to look forward, and that in the
21st century peoples of all nations will leave the Earth for
voyages of discovery and exploration.  He stated that now is the
time to commit ourselves to a sustained program of human
exploration of the solar system and the permanent settlement of
space.

"Our goal is to establish the US as the preeminent space fairing
nation, from the voyages of Columbus to the triumph of the Moon
itself...."  He implied that space exploration is a worth-while
venture from an economic stand point by stating the Apollo
program paid down to Earth dividends, and the human exploration
of the Moon would have been a bargain at twice the price.
"Apollo is the best return on investment since Leonardo DiVinci
bought his first sketch pad."

In his speech, he announced his long range vision as the
completion of the Space Station Freedom in the 1990s, a permanent
return to the Moon at the turn of the century, and then the human
exploration of Mars.  Each mission will succesively build upon
the next.  He added that the future of the space program lies
within the hands of Congress and ultimately in the hands of the
public.

It is President Bush's intention that the 30th anniversary of
Apollo 11 should be celebrated not in Washington, DC, but on the
fully operational Space Station Freedom.  He went on to add that
the space station will serve as a bridge to the solar system and
our own fragile Earth. "International initatives are need to seek
new solutions to global environmental problems, and Mission to
Planet Earth is an important initiative in our national space
program.  The Space Station Freedom is the necessary next step
for sustatined human exploration."

The President charged his "right hand man" Vice President Dan
Quayle and his National Space Council to work out the specific
time frame, milestones and resources needed to return to the Moon
permanently and go on to explore Mars.

He closed his speech by saying the dream of reaching new stars
and exploring new worlds will be realized not in his generation
or even his childrens generation, but we must begin with this
generation. "We can't make the next great leap for mankind
tomorrow unless we take the single step today."

The NSS mourns the death of a valued and visionary member of the
Board of Directors, George A. Koopman, president and co-founder
of the American Rocket Company. Mr. Koopman died Wednesday of
injuries sustained in an automobile accident. He was forty-four
years old.

AMROC officials affirmed that preparations for the company's
first space launch, scheduled for August 14, 1989, will continue
as planned. James Bennett, AMROC's vp for External Affairs, said
"This represents an enormous loss to AMROC. Koopman was a true
space pioneer, not only by virtue of his key role in founding and
sustaining AMROC, but also his long support of and participation
in organizations such as the National Space Society. The
realization of George Koopman's dream of creating affordable
access to space will be his memorial."

Koopman's family has requested that in lieu of flowers,
contributions to one of several charitable organizations be made.
NSS has been selected and will set up a trust fund in his name to
continue the visionary goals he pioneered. Contributions will be
excepted by the NSS to the George A. Koopman Memorial Fund.

This has been the National Space Society's Space Hotline updated
SpaceDay, July 20th, 1989.

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 89 20:55:38 GMT
From: concertina![e-mail]  (Steve Hix)
Subject: Re: Don't Mess with NASA (afterburners)

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (david s. channin) writes:
> > ... What are the laws, regulations, etc (if any) that prevent you from
> > doing the following:
> >     1. Walk into the Northrop offices in wherever.
> >     2. Pull out a bank check for x million dollars.
> >     3. Say,``I'd would like that nice T-38 that's in the showroom''.
> >     4. Fly away with same after filling the tank...
> >
> >     Why wouldn't this scenario work?? (or would it?).
>
> The answer to item 3 will be "sorry, that is a USAF aircraft that is not
> for sale to civilians without government approval".  This is partly
> [...  And the US
> government feels that private citizens should not be allowed to own jet
> fighters.

But, Henry!  The T-38 *isn't* a fighter...though I suppose you could
add an external gun pod after you got it home.  :}

You're probably right anyway.  Darn.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 89 13:33:42 GMT
From: cica!ctrsol!emory![e-mail]  (Scott R. Anderson)
Subject: Re: Possible evidence for life on Mars.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>(CUP/ASG, MLO5-2/G1 6A, 223-3283) writes:
>>
>>          The possibility that life could have evolved on Mars, and perhaps
>>     exists there now, has been given a boost by the discovery of large
>>     amounts of organic material, the basis of all known life forms, in a
>>     meteorite believed to have come from the red planet.
>>
>My question is that all of the pictures from Mars have been of river channels,
>river channels which apparently handled immense quantities of water.  How
>would this environment (i.e. the river) compare with the ocean?  If the water
>was flowing fast enough to carve these channels, would there also be areas
>where the water would be stagnant for a long enough period of time for
>proteins and the like to form?

The origin of these channels is believed to be due to the sudden melting of
large quantities of subterranean ice and/or permafrost, which are then forced
through the surface to produce a gigantic flash flood.  However, the air
pressure on Mars is so low that the water will quickly evaporate away, so there
is little chance that these floods could provide "stagnant" pools of water.

Speculation:  subterranean chambers deep enough in the interior of Mars that
liquid water could exist, and be warm and stagnant.  Volcanic activity
occasionally spits out a rock or two which then find their way to Antartica...
millions of years ago, of course.

*
  *      **                  Scott Robert Anderson      gatech!emoryu1!phssra
   *   *    *    **          [e-mail]   [e-mail]
    * *      * *    * **
     *        *      *  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V9 #571
*******************